"I'm an airsofter not a reenactor" - discuss

We'll see how you do on your umlaut exams...

Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?

If you accept my premise that what we do IS reenactment, no problemo. Over-weight, over-age, over-bearded AND we have females taking the part of males - and no one blinks an eye. We are the 'new' reenactment movement, so new its barely three years old. Old traditional reenactment conventions are out of the window.

I think the term that, in my very brief experience, best describes this group in "inclusive", rather than "exclusive".

Er... hello. Dunno what category I fall into, but I am ever more looking at my kit and looking at books and looking at reenactor forums. I love it when someone puts their toe into WWII airsoft with the minimum of kit, but with the enthusiasm that I had.

I find myself more and more aiming for authentic kit and also moving away from traditional airsoft skirmishes, and wanting rules that reflect more realistically a WWII battle. I also find it most satisfying when I raise points on reenactment forums and find that I know more than some members of reenactment groups.

Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?

There are many. The winner of best display at Stoneleigh was populated only by the fair sex.
Visit the WW2 re-enacting forums and there are whole sections for ladies and they get stuck into the general threads too. It's not all about boys and their toys.

One point of note, legally, if you take insurance through AFRA then you ARE a re-enactor, how you think of yourself, your opinion on the matter, bears no weight. You use your membership of AFRA to provide your exemption from the VCRA. For that to be valid you must by definition be a re-enactor. You cannot be otherwise.

i thought i was an airsofter.but, on closer inspection, i am a re-enactor.think about it, we can all wear modern gear, use an m4 but still call the battle arnhem. thats airsoft. wether we are portraying ww2 soldiers but wearing modern kit, or playing drug cartel against DEA we are airsofting. but........ when we put on that brown or grey wool or m42 jump suit to fight agianst the other guys at a place we have said is normandy, we load up period looking weapons and get into the mind set of ww2 soldiers,we are reenacting that battle in that period. if thats not reenacting i dont know what is.

One point of note, legally

Sort of by-the-by really, in context of this thread anyway. Its more an examination of why some people regard the word 'reenactor' with disdain.

Its clear from the excellent posts so far that this seems to revolve around obsession with kit (ironic in itself as most 'airsofters' want more and better kit) - more specifically someone else dictating what kit has to be worn or giving unsolicited criticism (or maybe just just a snidy sneer).

Which I find interesting as kit is of secondary interest to me. Don't get me wrong, I love dressing up as much as the next man and have more kit than can sensibly be justified (being a responsible head of household who is repaying the national debt single handed ) but surely reenactment is about recreating the past?

If reenactment is about recreating the past is true then wearing the clothing of the period and using the equipment of the period must come into the equation. So, lets say we organise a battle based around the retreat of the BEF . To make any sense at all everything needs to be in context. If players turned up with MP44s, peadot cammo and MP5s then it clearly isn't an early war scenario any more, its just a WW2 themed airsoft game. And if a player turned up wearing peadot cammo 'because he is an airsofter and he will wear what he likes' then isn't this disrespectful to the other players efforts and wishes, those who did make the effort to beg, borrow or steal kit more in keeping? And is that person more likely to be the sort who disregards commands and objectives and is just there to shoot at as many enemy as possible?

In other words, is someone who feels themselves to be a reenactor more likely to get into the spirit of the scenario, act out a part and make an event 'work'?

i would have to say yes to the part about a reenactor getting into the part more. i recuring argument i have with a mate of mine who has dipped his toe in ww2 airsoft is the fact that he is addamant that he will wear hightec magnum boots with his m42 jump suit. if thats the case why bother with the jump suit? why bother with yank webbing and rigger pouches then? why not wear a webtex assualt vest with it. the fact of looking right helps develop the right frame of mind . the right frame of mind is what makes a ww2 game believable.

I agree with a lot that has been said here, but I do feel where the "re-enactors" tag gets banded around particularly when there is unhelpfull or derogatory critisism made by some quarters on here. As a whole the standard of kit is good and where it isn't it is generally people who are dipping a toe in and will either invest in better kit, which as we know takes time and money, or will drop out because its not their gig.
As whether I am an Airsofter or a Re-enactor..... I dont like the whole "HiCap Super Soaker" mentallity of most skirmish open days, the idea of MilSim doesn't do it for me, full on "stitch counting" Re-Enactment doesn't enthuse me either....
So I suppose I enjoy what I have experienced at every single WW2 airsoft game I have been to, the cameradie of fellow players, the overall high standard of kit that helps with the suspension of belief, and the buzz of combat... Its LARP with guns, and before the denials start flooding in, its dressing up running around with "toy" guns (in a recent game false beards too) pretending to be a soldier from 60 odd years ago....
So in conclusion am I an Airsofter or a Re-enactor....

"My names Aitch and I'm a LARPer"

i would have to say yes to the part about a reenactor getting into the part more. i recuring argument i have with a mate of mine who has dipped his toe in ww2 airsoft is the fact that he is addamant that he will wear hightec magnum boots with his m42 jump suit. if thats the case why bother with the jump suit? why bother with yank webbing and rigger pouches then? why not wear a webtex assualt vest with it. the fact of looking right helps develop the right frame of mind . the right frame of mind is what makes a ww2 game believable.

Yes, the very impracticality of WWII kit is part of the appeal... or rather, despite the impracticality, I will attempt to wear it all, because that is how it was. Even if it means I can't lie on my back when dead!

CiA always sold itself as "Film-Sim" and it's that aspect that led me out of the shadows to join up after about a month of lurking. It's a nod to historical accuracy without being anally retentive.

It allows me to wear a modern base layer under my feldgrau so I don't freeze.
It allows me to wear DMS boots instead of hobnails.
It allows my Missus to come along as a frontline soldier if she wants to (she doesn't )
It even allows me to use an AK47.

Most of all, it seems to have hit upon a winning combination of being informative, inclusive and above all FUN.

The day it stops being fun is the day I flog all my kit and look for something else to do.

Theres no reason why you can't be both

Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?

none to behonest as i tryed to join a few and was told i was wrong sex and wrong colour but i was luckly enough to find CIA
i also think we do both airsoft/reenactor

Yes, the very impracticality of WWII kit is part of the appeal... or rather, despite the impracticality, I will attempt to wear it all, because that is how it was. Even if it means I can't lie on my back when dead!

Very true

20th Century re-enactment groups do tend to shy away from ladies dressing up as men, unlike their more medieval and renaissance cousins. This is because its generally a public facing pursuit and it could look a little silly. Though arguably only as silly as overweight 70 year old men pretending to be 20 year-olds, but that's another discussion entirely and if you want I can direct you to several threads on the subject elsewhere. I really don't want to get into it. I can see both points of view and feel it is wrong to snipe at people for their opinions on the matter and would rather sit on the fence and just be happy.

WWII airsoft is not a public facing pursuit so such concerns need not concern us when doing it. Hence if the ladies want to take part then that's fine, along with the overweight 70 year old men as well.

However there are quite a few groups that do allow ladies to dress up as ladies! Helga on here is a member of Frau who portray German ladies, and we have several ladies in my Far East Group, The Far Setting Sun.

If you want to, marsha, I can put you in touch with the co-ordinator of the ladies in our group. She'll be very happy to hear from you and in fact if your colour isn't white then you actually will be even more warmly welcomed! Oddly enough not everyone in the British Army was white in India in the 40s... I recently bought an original far east uniform for my wife and it cost about £150 overall, so it's not a massively expensive impression and of course for first timers there's nearly always loaner kit available.

I'm a reenactor really.

I have no interest in attending any other airsoft events other than WW2 events and pick those carefully as I want to attend events that realistically portray the feel of combat....in as realistic a way as is possible, anyway.

I use original kit, try to avoid modern aids in the field (although will not give up my gore-tex bivi bag at the moment!) and play in the spirit of the 40's. We're as close to a reenactment battle as is possible without the bangs and in many ways are superior in how we fight.

ALL the discussions we've had recently about accuracy have tended to be about attitude and demeanor rather than kit requirements. Whilst it's great to see people in fully accurate kit, it is exclusive, for financial reasons, so not everyone can achieve that (myself included).

I'm very aware that recently some people have taken umbrage at my suggestions for improving a look by improving one's attitude to it all, but so much can be achieved by this with no cost! Stand tall, make sure your belt order and uniform is neat, tidy, and in order. Do up zips and pockets, carry your weapons correctly, carry yourself like a soldier would..... All very simple to achieve and all making a huge difference.

That attitude should then transfer onto the field. You'll be more disciplined about the event, about taking orders (which on some events is very important), about how you use your weapon and look after it, about taking hits, about being 'immersed' into the feel of it all.

I'm not bothered about events with big set pieces, vehicles, et al. I'd rather attend an event where people are into the spirit of it. If that means I spend the whole weekend in a ditch and only shoot a few rounds then no problem. It's about the experience in my head, not the glory of being photographed next to a big truck.

Good topic this. And the discussion is great. A testament to the great bunch of people who form the membership of this forum.

PS: Notice how I don't call the events 'games'? I believed what we do is 'battle reenactment' not 'airsoft gaming'.

I'm a re-enactor, but also an airsofter.

I am a re-enactor. My impressions are nearly all ones that are WWII based and are (I hope) to a high level of accuracy. I attend public re-enactment shows and have done for a few years now. I have loads of original bits and bobs. I have deacs and have investigated into the impressions I do, not relying on computer games or modern films for my info. I know both Brit and US drill and am happy to teach it. I love WWII themed airsoft events, but prefer ones where there is not a sign of modern kit on the field. Even a couple of small modern pistol pouches on a 37 pattern belt will piss me off, though I won't say anything.

However I am also an airsofter. I still love going to Open days and playing amongst people in modern kit. I have do not like to bitch too much about the level of kit, even if I am fuming inside about how shite someone looks. But I do prefer airsoft games where people actually play properly. Don't stand at the back in full view shooting at long range. Do get in and give the enemy some grief and do follow or give orders without getting all stroppy. That's because of training I've done as an airsofter in modern kit and has nothing to do with my re-enacting.

BTW, there's another term we've missed off... Living Historian. I also am working on being one of those.

If an airsofter starts to take their kit seriously then they're already in re-enactor territory.

there's another term we've missed off... Living Historian

Noo, I didn't miss it off - we do integrate some bits of LH into organised battles. Curiously one of the best bits of Mist for me was at was lunchtime - I looked round at all the Allied troops eating crap food out of mess tins like they hadn't eaten for a week, that took me straight back 70 years, bloody awesome!
Not quite in the same league as Ms Marlowe's living history but meh!
http://www.nederland4045.nl/uk/index.htm

That food took me back also Dave, not quite 70yrs but it reminded me of ...Range stew always the same look,smell,for 24yrs.

And i suppose reading all the posts so far..........yes i will admit it.......I'm part ot the new reenactment movement There Ive said it.

Theres no reason why you can't be both

Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?

none to behonest as i tryed to join a few and was told i was wrong sex and wrong colour but i was luckly enough to find CIA
i also think we do both airsoft/reenactor

that is absoultey outrageous, but marsha you have hit the nail on the head. Re enactor = elitism. it has been echoed in many post on the forum, old style re enacting was the preserve of a few. those of us who are refusing to cut our hair, beards, a lady like marsha( and I've seen you kit Marsha ) where told at the outset to bugger off. Yet and I know its been touched before, the one telling us to sod off are middle class, fat, balding, non german speaking( and sadly the worst offenders are the German units) who look no more like WW2 soldiers than my nan. Volkstrum fair enough
Hurrah for the Nu-re enactor. I'm off to get my slashed fleigerblus and bufont my hair, you may may now call me Herr Ant.
"furher charming, Furher charming , a dodgy tach is nothing to be scared of"

I'm most definitely not an "airsofter", I grew out of that several years ago and actually quit playing altogether because of the politics, oneupmanship and the frankly stupid games that were put on. I only look back fondly on one game from that period and that was the original "Distant Thunder" event, where, for a while, I felt like I was a soldier again. I didn't get that feeling at any other airsoft game or "event" during the time I was an "airsofter", no matter where I went, or whom I played alongside. I found myself drawn to WW2 airsoft when the AGM MP40 came out. At last, an authentic, affordable weapon around which to base an authentic loadout. I found the CiA website at around the same time and haven't looked back since. From some campfire conversations, it seems many CiA members have walked a similar path to myself.

I've shied away from calling myself a reenactor but, if I take a look at my kit, my book collection and my whole attitude to the WW2 scene, I find that I must be. The use of airsoft weapons ADDS to the feel of the events I go to, it's not the main, all encompassing thing about them. I could quite happily attend a CiA event and not fire a shot, in fact, my entire ammo consumption for EVERY WW2 event I've been to is probably less than I've used at ONE "normal" airsoft weekender.

As Headshot said, it's players attitudes to being in the field which need the most work and where "conventional" reenactors win hands down. It's no good having a 100% accurate loadout if you're going to run round like a tit, not following orders and only being into WW2 because you like the look of the kit and wanting to get your gun off, yet having no idea of, nor interest in a soldiers' discipline, camraderie or attitude to life on a battlefield. If people can get past this obstacle and stop thinking like airsofters, they will get far more from it and enhance the experience for everyone present. Small scale, tightly themed events, where if orders aren't followed, people "die" and there are far ranging consequences for freelancing are the way forward for inducing a soldiers outlook, or at least a small taste of it.

So, I suppose my own attitude towards WW2 airsoft makes me a "reenactor" and, thinking about it, that's no bad thing. It allows me to get the most from events, it gives me a creative outlet to build authentic weapons, it gives me a sense of camraderie with people who share my attitude and it gives me a deep understanding and massive respect for the men who really fought WW2. As an ex soldier myself, I think that if only out of respect for these people, we should all be trying to get it right and that makes us all "reenactors" in one sense or another.

Both yith and headshot have stated that the have a high level of kit, researched and not from games or movies. Ah guys, have a look around, 9th SS, 16th SS, Doughboys, Dog Company, Easy, all the various Heer groups, the Falshy boys and girls. Every on on here aspires to a level of kit accuracy and given time we have all achieved it. I've only done this since last year and my kit is still being worked on ( might have been better to finished one and then moved on to another one, but meh)
No one has said I'm basing this on COD5 or shaving ryans privates.
Taking orders, lads, sorry but its a game. While I would be very critical of someone who refuses to act in the spirit of the game and buggers it for others, many of us want to shoot germans/brits/americans and have a laugh with our mates. No one like the self appointed abiter of correctness, we all have a very good working knowledge of the war, but I know how to give feedback, without making people feel stupid. My advice, before you decide to point out inaccuracies, think how they would be recieved. some people are more senstive than others.
Just a thought.